Unarmed boy shot and killed by neighborhood watch captain...

[blackberry74]

 

Road is there any way you can shrink that pic, please? Sheesh.

[NeverQuietHere]

 

Road is there any way you can shrink that pic, please? Sheesh.

 

Apparently, size does matter.

[road2freedom]

It resizes automatically in my browser. It's too late to edit though. Mods have at it.

[blackberry74]

Too bad for me I'm not using your browser, huh?

[road2freedom]

Indeed

[Pam]

That could be used to argue impaired judgement and to discredit (its still illegal). You are right though, lots of kids try pot. Not many of them get into physical altercations with adults and end up shot though. I'd say this one is a bit more unique.

 

Yeah, most of them go out for tea and skittles to feed the munchies, and don't end up dead.

[Nemeweh]

Tell me how this law would differentiate between the two cases. Let's take out the alcohol and say it was at a football game. two guys get into a fight. One guy shoots (or stabs) the other because he "feared for his life" (because the other guy was serving him up a proper azz beating.)

Guy who shoots is the one who threw the first punch?

 

*And Blackberry, you're right, if he'd stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. But by the sounds of the tape, he was already out of his car and following him before being told to stop. (Perfectly legal, and does not meet the definition of "stalking" and there's a good chance lots of people would do the same thing, especially on a neighborhood watch). If, as GZ has said, he stopped and TM doubled back around and confronted him, did GZ not have a right to defend himself at that point?

 

 

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

[Nemeweh]

I think I will just be glad it wasn't my kid being stalked and murdered, because some of you in this thread are just...too much. I will add you to my Prayer list and light an Issue Lamp for you.

 

[BlackWater]

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

 

 

:rolleyes:

[Nemeweh]

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Right back at ya.

[blackberry74]

 

Perhaps you'd like to join me in having a cup, Nem.

[road2freedom]

Tell me how this law would differentiate between the two cases. Let's take out the alcohol and say it was at a football game. two guys get into a fight. One guy shoots (or stabs) the other because he "feared for his life" (because the other guy was serving him up a proper azz beating.)

Guy who shoots is the one who threw the first punch?

 

*And Blackberry, you're right, if he'd stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. But by the sounds of the tape, he was already out of his car and following him before being told to stop. (Perfectly legal, and does not meet the definition of "stalking" and there's a good chance lots of people would do the same thing, especially on a neighborhood watch). If, as GZ has said, he stopped and TM doubled back around and confronted him, did GZ not have a right to defend himself at that point?

 

 

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

 

This "boy" was not a boy in most senses of the word. If some creep is following you, most people would run, hide, or seek help, or you know... use the phone in your hand to call the cops. If he chose instead to fight, he put his own life at risk. They both put their own lives at risk in this situation. In this case, being the better fighter didn't work out so well.

 

You can play the tough guy card and call him a sweet tea for getting beat up by a young man. Maybe he is. Maybe he's not athletic like TM was. Maybe he's just not a fighter... but whatever the case if you are in fear for your life, FL law does not discriminate based on the age of the assailant, nor does it require your adversary be armed with a gun. Fists can be considered deadly weapons.

[blackberry74]

Wait a minute...under that Stand Your Ground law, Trayvon was under no duty to retreat. Just like Zimmerman wasn't from what you guys have been arguing all along. You can't have it both ways.

Edited May 22, 2012 by blackberry74

[road2freedom]

Wait a minute...under that Stand Your Ground law, Trayvon was under no duty to retreat. Just like Zimmerman wasn't from what you guys have been arguing all along. You can't have it both ways.

 

I don't disagree... if GZ attacked first. If TM came out swinging, then that's not self defense, nor would it qualify for SYG.

 

On a related note, in today's world, I probably would avoid standing my ground if the only guns I have are in my sleeves. A fist fight ain't what it used to be...

Edited May 22, 2012 by road2freedom

[Echo_X]

Wait a minute...under that Stand Your Ground law, Trayvon was under no duty to retreat. Just like Zimmerman wasn't from what you guys have been arguing all along. You can't have it both ways.

 

For the hundredth time. Yes, they can have it both ways. Under the stand your ground law, neither Martin nor Zimmerman were obligated to retreat, both had reason to feel they were in danger, there for both had a right to "stand their ground".

 

According to stand your ground. When ever there is a fight, the person who lives is the ground stander, and the person who has been murdered was the "aggressor". The law is bs and needs to be struck down right now because it is basically inviting people to solve their problems with violence.

[cljohnr]

Wait a minute...under that Stand Your Ground law, Trayvon was under no duty to retreat. Just like Zimmerman wasn't from what you guys have been arguing all along. You can't have it both ways.

One of them used fighting words or laid hands on the other first. That person is not protected under stand your ground laws. It's not ambiguous. I've read some commenters saying that the stand your ground law may not even apply here, which is interesting.

[blackberry74]

I'm simply playing devil's advocate. I'm not the one trying to justify Zimmerman's behavior with that particular law. I've also heard from different legal experts (and even the drafters of the law) that SYG wouldn't apply in this case. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

I saw Angela Corey last week complaining about having to release all that evidence. I can see how that would place attorneys on both sides in a bad position. Looks like that law may be up for some revision as well. Lots of stuff to consider.

[Nemeweh]

 

Perhaps you'd like to join me in having a cup, Nem.

 

 

Yes please.

[sirrowan]

Tell me how this law would differentiate between the two cases. Let's take out the alcohol and say it was at a football game. two guys get into a fight. One guy shoots (or stabs) the other because he "feared for his life" (because the other guy was serving him up a proper azz beating.)

Guy who shoots is the one who threw the first punch?

 

*And Blackberry, you're right, if he'd stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. But by the sounds of the tape, he was already out of his car and following him before being told to stop. (Perfectly legal, and does not meet the definition of "stalking" and there's a good chance lots of people would do the same thing, especially on a neighborhood watch). If, as GZ has said, he stopped and TM doubled back around and confronted him, did GZ not have a right to defend himself at that point?

 

 

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

 

This "boy" was not a boy in most senses of the word. If some creep is following you, most people would run, hide, or seek help, or you know... use the phone in your hand to call the cops. If he chose instead to fight, he put his own life at risk. They both put their own lives at risk in this situation. In this case, being the better fighter didn't work out so well.

 

You can play the tough guy card and call him a sweet tea for getting beat up by a young man. Maybe he is. Maybe he's not athletic like TM was. Maybe he's just not a fighter... but whatever the case if you are in fear for your life, FL law does not discriminate based on the age of the assailant, nor does it require your adversary be armed with a gun. Fists can be considered deadly weapons.

Oh BS. Getting your azz kicked by a teenager is NOT deadly. It's humiliating. I'm with Nem. Totally. GZ was the stalker!! For God's sakes he stalked this kid, got his azz beat and then killed him for it!!!!! I don't care what anyone says, there is NO justification for GZ shooting and killing the kid. NONE!!

 

And just saying about how he should have called the cops. Did it ever occur to anyone that this kid probably doesn't view the police as his protector? I know I don't and neither do my kids. He was a young black male with a less than stellar record. I've taught my kids that police officers are NOT there to protect you from anything. They are there to simply uphold the law. That's IT. My children know to not talk to a police officer unless I tell them its ok or they have requested assistance from them. We've got some shady effers in my town......I'd imagine that this kid felt the same way although I will never know for sure.

[road2freedom]

There have been numerous occasions of a teenager inflicting serious harm and death towards other individuals. Even that withstanding, while he was a teenager, he was the size of a full grown adult. In fact, if he were to commit a violent crime, he would have been tried as an adult in FL. You are entitled to your opinion, but I personally would not rule out self defense as a reasonable explanation, assuming the facts support it.

 

Say what you want about cops, but I'd encourage you not to make that about all cops - not all are bad. I do share your reservations about talking to them for fear of self-incrimination, but still... most people I know would call 911 before attacking someone. Hell, even GZ called 911 first, right?

[Mortgagase]

Tell me how this law would differentiate between the two cases. Let's take out the alcohol and say it was at a football game. two guys get into a fight. One guy shoots (or stabs) the other because he "feared for his life" (because the other guy was serving him up a proper azz beating.)

Guy who shoots is the one who threw the first punch?

 

*And Blackberry, you're right, if he'd stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. But by the sounds of the tape, he was already out of his car and following him before being told to stop. (Perfectly legal, and does not meet the definition of "stalking" and there's a good chance lots of people would do the same thing, especially on a neighborhood watch). If, as GZ has said, he stopped and TM doubled back around and confronted him, did GZ not have a right to defend himself at that point?

 

 

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

 

This "boy" was not a boy in most senses of the word. If some creep is following you, most people would run, hide, or seek help, or you know... use the phone in your hand to call the cops. If he chose instead to fight, he put his own life at risk. They both put their own lives at risk in this situation. In this case, being the better fighter didn't work out so well.

 

You can play the tough guy card and call him a sweet tea for getting beat up by a young man. Maybe he is. Maybe he's not athletic like TM was. Maybe he's just not a fighter... but whatever the case if you are in fear for your life, FL law does not discriminate based on the age of the assailant, nor does it require your adversary be armed with a gun. Fists can be considered deadly weapons.

Oh BS. Getting your azz kicked by a teenager is NOT deadly. It's humiliating. I'm with Nem. Totally. GZ was the stalker!! For God's sakes he stalked this kid, got his azz beat and then killed him for it!!!!! I don't care what anyone says, there is NO justification for GZ shooting and killing the kid. NONE!!

 

And just saying about how he should have called the cops. Did it ever occur to anyone that this kid probably doesn't view the police as his protector? I know I don't and neither do my kids. He was a young black male with a less than stellar record. I've taught my kids that police officers are NOT there to protect you from anything. They are there to simply uphold the law. That's IT. My children know to not talk to a police officer unless I tell them its ok or they have requested assistance from them. We've got some shady effers in my town......I'd imagine that this kid felt the same way although I will never know for sure.

[Mortgagase]

Tell me how this law would differentiate between the two cases. Let's take out the alcohol and say it was at a football game. two guys get into a fight. One guy shoots (or stabs) the other because he "feared for his life" (because the other guy was serving him up a proper azz beating.)

Guy who shoots is the one who threw the first punch?

 

*And Blackberry, you're right, if he'd stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. But by the sounds of the tape, he was already out of his car and following him before being told to stop. (Perfectly legal, and does not meet the definition of "stalking" and there's a good chance lots of people would do the same thing, especially on a neighborhood watch). If, as GZ has said, he stopped and TM doubled back around and confronted him, did GZ not have a right to defend himself at that point?

 

 

No he did not. He should have told the BOY that he thought he was someone who had been breaking into the area. Apologized, then WALKED AWAY like the effen adult he is supposed to be.

 

What he did was stalk a freakin KID. Think about yours and Braz's oldest...same age (ditto for my DD) walking back from the corner store at 7:30 pm in the evening. Realizing some pervy creep is following you... what do you do? Do you go home and lead them to your house??? Where they then will know not just where YOU live, but your entire family???

 

No. Think OPSEC. IF TM double backed, re-conned his stalker and attempted to protect himself he had that right. Just imagine is John Wayne Gacy's victims and how they were found. Now think about your kid again.

 

Yeah, Eff GZ for being the world's biggest salamander and a murderer to boot. He pulled a gun and shot an unarmed kid, because he stalked the kid then got his azz beat for it by said kid. And Im supposed to feel sorry for him???? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Not.

 

 

Oh and any CCW carrier should be able to tell you that when you pull your weapon, you better have a dayum good reason besides being such a huge Va-Jay-Jay that you got your grown butt beat by a kid.

 

This "boy" was not a boy in most senses of the word. If some creep is following you, most people would run, hide, or seek help, or you know... use the phone in your hand to call the cops. If he chose instead to fight, he put his own life at risk. They both put their own lives at risk in this situation. In this case, being the better fighter didn't work out so well.

 

You can play the tough guy card and call him a sweet tea for getting beat up by a young man. Maybe he is. Maybe he's not athletic like TM was. Maybe he's just not a fighter... but whatever the case if you are in fear for your life, FL law does not discriminate based on the age of the assailant, nor does it require your adversary be armed with a gun. Fists can be considered deadly weapons.

Oh BS. Getting your azz kicked by a teenager is NOT deadly. It's humiliating. I'm with Nem. Totally. GZ was the stalker!! For God's sakes he stalked this kid, got his azz beat and then killed him for it!!!!! I don't care what anyone says, there is NO justification for GZ shooting and killing the kid. NONE!!

 

And just saying about how he should have called the cops. Did it ever occur to anyone that this kid probably doesn't view the police as his protector? I know I don't and neither do my kids. He was a young black male with a less than stellar record. I've taught my kids that police officers are NOT there to protect you from anything. They are there to simply uphold the law. That's IT. My children know to not talk to a police officer unless I tell them its ok or they have requested assistance from them. We've got some shady effers in my town......I'd imagine that this kid felt the same way although I will never know for sure.

 

If you are licensed to carry a weapon then you know if you fear for your life then you are authorized to shoot. Of course if you do there may be legal problems. So he made the call and pulled the trigger. "Getting your flowers kicked by a teenager is not deadly"??? Ask the United States Marine Corp about that!

[Echo_X]

So has anyone brought up the April "stand your ground" murder which took place at a taco bell?

 

Apparently the a driver, while pulling out of the Taco Bell drive through, almost ran over a mentally disabled Hispanic man, which lead to an argument. Lacking witnesses, the driver claims that the man struck his car with a pipe or baseball bat, though there is no damage to his person or his car. No weapons, canes, pipes, or bats were found on the victims body or in his sphere of influence.

 

The man was in a car. If he were that concerned, all he had to do was slam his foot down on the gas. Instead he chose to commit murder. I have already said this law basically provides incentive to murder the other person because that way they cannot tell their side of the argument, this just further proves my point.

 

Stand your ground is murder. Plain and simple.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Echo_X

[mk_378]

So has anyone brought up the April "stand your ground" murder which took place at a taco bell?

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=490303

 

Thread tried to turn into something about gun control, then went out.

[road2freedom]

The law itself does not equate to murder. There are reasonable situations in which stand your ground protects a person exercising self defense. It's hard to pass judgement without being there imo... did he actually intend to harm the driver? Would you rather wait until the driver was dead to find out if that was the result? I wouldn't... if I was the driver of course.

 

 

There is some irony in this case... this time it was a black guy shooting a "white-hispanic". The shooter has yet to be charged and is not in jail. No white militant groups (or white-hispanic militant groups... do those exist?) have publicly placed a bounty on his head. No massive marches or rallies. No reverends. No US presidents claiming he looks like their son.

Edited May 31, 2012 by road2freedom