Wells Fargo Employee Fired over 40yr old ShopLifting charge

[angeleyeskkhr]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

Point to where I said ALL misdemeanors are petty, and I don't make the rules. There is plenty of case law to support what i said. BTW, you can get arrested for a misdemeanor and still have access to criminal history data base.

 

Not at my employment I can't.

 

And while there is plenty of law that points to what you said, your own links specifically state,

When looking at the manner in which federal courts have treated theft in regard to Rule 609(a), the picture becomes very confusing. Plainly put, the federal courts are inconsistent in this area. [/]

 

So that plus two convictions, and I can see why they would want to play it safe.

Just like my employer adapts a rigid stance, maybe Wells Fargo, in an effort to clean up their image, is taking a much more conservative stance.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Pam
Fixed typo for Angel

[cashnocredit]

The background report listed one other arrest. In 2001, Quesada was taken into custody on suspicion of battery after a man she later married made an accusation against her. Actually, he had fallen at work (???) and injured himself that way, she said. The case was never charged.

 

Um, how nuts is that?

[Tigz]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

Point to where I said all misdemeanors are petty. Besides, I don't make the rules. Read case law. BTW, you can get arrested for a misdemeanor and still have access to criminal history data base.

Not to NCIC.

[TheBanker]

It was likely the background check for the Nationwide Mortgage Licensing System (I saw Wells Fargo Home Mortgage noted) which is pretty thorough.

 

This happened to a Senior Banker at my old bank. Bankers originate home loans there, and thus, are required to be NMLS certified. Something came up after he was hired on his record, and the bank then terminated his employment.

 

Crime is a crime.

[Labyrinthine]

I think the key here is whether or not she disclosed this on her application. Many bank applications ask if you have ever been convicted for a crime involving dishonesty or breach of trust. If she did not disclose, that was another strike against her. That, plus two arrests and the old shoplifting charge? Yea, I can see why they fired her.

[angeleyeskkhr]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

Point to where I said all misdemeanors are petty. Besides, I don't make the rules. Read case law. BTW, you can get arrested for a misdemeanor and still have access to criminal history data base.

Not to NCIC.

 

 

Yep. I believe that is why my employer has the rule. We have access to NCIC/TCIC and get to see the "hidden" stuff that other sectors don't have access to.

[TeeSharice]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

 

 

 

for S & Gs.....wouldnt it matter if there was an arrest but no conviction?? charges dropped or not persued yet had multiple theft arrests?

[Doodah]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

Point to where I said all misdemeanors are petty. Besides, I don't make the rules. Read case law. BTW, you can get arrested for a misdemeanor and still have access to criminal history data base.

Not to NCIC.

You might want to rethink your answer.

[Tigz]

I don't need to reconsider my answer. The only people who can access NCIC (and state CIC's) have to be certified, have to have a need to know, and be a part of the law enforcement community. Police officers can't even access NCIC, it has to go through someone who is certified.

 

A person found accessing NCIC databases without a need to know can be arrested. People who are NCIC certified who abuse the system to, say, look up a neighbor or old boyfriend are also subject to termination and arrest.

 

All NCIC terminals have ORIs. If a request comes through that is not through an ORI terminal, the request is denied.

 

Now would you like to explain how the general public can pay to access this information?

[beli]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

Point to where I said all misdemeanors are petty. Besides, I don't make the rules. Read case law. BTW, you can get arrested for a misdemeanor and still have access to criminal history data base.

Not to NCIC.

You might want to rethink your answer.

I have to agree with Tigz.. have you actually LOOKED at NCIC's website? a "Normal" person cannot access it.. period. Now other criminal background checks that don't involve NCIC may be a different matter such as those that are done by employees, but even those I do think you have to be fingerprinted (not 100% certain) which means you'd have to pass a background check yourself if I'm not mistaken.

[Nostromo]

I think the bigger issue is why people are being fired for committing certain crimes decades ago. I don't advocate criminal activity, but I hardly think committing a misdeameanor many years ago, bars someone from being able to perform their job properly. If I discover a conviction, it depends on the severity of the crime and how long ago it happened, as to whether or not it may disqualify them from employment. IMO, being fired for committing shoplifting 40 years ago, is silly.

[Tigz]

I think the bigger issue is why people are being fired for committing certain crimes decades ago. I don't advocate criminal activity, but I hardly think committing a misdeameanor many years ago, bars someone from being able to perform their job properly. If I discover a conviction, it depends on the severity of the crime and how long ago it happened, as to whether or not it may disqualify them from employment. IMO, being fired for committing shoplifting 40 years ago, is silly.

 

I have to agree with that. It does seem rather dumb. I think they ought to have like a 10 year limit on it.....15 at the absolute max.

[Doodah]

I don't need to reconsider my answer. The only people who can access NCIC (and state CIC's) have to be certified, have to have a need to know, and be a part of the law enforcement community. Police officers can't even access NCIC, it has to go through someone who is certified.

 

A person found accessing NCIC databases without a need to know can be arrested. People who are NCIC certified who abuse the system to, say, look up a neighbor or old boyfriend are also subject to termination and arrest.

 

All NCIC terminals have ORIs. If a request comes through that is not through an ORI terminal, the request is denied.

 

Now would you like to explain how the general public can pay to access this information?

No one said general public until you. I'm a LEO, and I have NCIC/FCIC access... I have never been arrested but I know for a FACT an associate has a prior misdemeanor arrest, and she has NCIC/FCIC access.

[Doodah]

Doodah, there were two convictions, one involving a YEAR probation. What exactly is "petty" crime in that state?

misdemeanor theft, misdemeanor drug possession, dui, etc.

that is ridiculous. ALL misdemeanors are "petty"?!?!

 

That would be like me getting arrested for a misdemeanor and crying boohoo when I got fired because I could no longer run criminal histories.

Point to where I said all misdemeanors are petty. Besides, I don't make the rules. Read case law. BTW, you can get arrested for a misdemeanor and still have access to criminal history data base.

Not to NCIC.

You might want to rethink your answer.

I have to agree with Tigz.. have you actually LOOKED at NCIC's website? a "Normal" person cannot access it.. period. Now other criminal background checks that don't involve NCIC may be a different matter such as those that are done by employees, but even those I do think you have to be fingerprinted (not 100% certain) which means you'd have to pass a background check yourself if I'm not mistaken.

Have I looked at NCIC? Yep... every day I look at NCIC and FCIC. You only assume I don't know what I'm talking about as you have no idea what I do for a living. I've been using NLETS my entire career.

[angeleyeskkhr]

I double checked state standards. For

My state, in order to qualify for access to TLETS/NLETS (and thus DPS CCH and TCIC/NCIC, you cannot EVER have had a conviction or probation (including deferred) for above a class b misdemeanor. And no class bs in the last 10 years.

 

However, like I said, my boss (well when I was hired policy was this) stated policy is that if there any class b or above arrest, no job for you. It's the whole "you can make requirements stricter, just not more lenient" philosophy at play.

[Doodah]

I double checked state standards. For

My state, in order to qualify for access to TLETS/NLETS (and thus DPS CCH and TCIC/NCIC, you cannot EVER have had a conviction or probation (including deferred) for above a class b misdemeanor. And no class bs in the last 10 years.

 

However, like I said, my boss (well when I was hired policy was this) stated policy is that if there any class b or above arrest, no job for you. It's the whole "you can make requirements stricter, just not more lenient" philosophy at play.

And to be clear on the matter, Texas has a 3 tiered classification system for misdemeanor offenses (A, B, and C). Is this correct?

[angeleyeskkhr]

Yes it does. But Class A and B would cover 90% of the offenses (and probably even more of the arrests). Most police do not arrest for Class C. The only exception I can think of is PI.

 

And again, my employer tightened the rules to any ARREST of class b or above with no time limitations.

[angeleyeskkhr]

Also, Class Cs are usually not reported on CCHs. Every once in a while I see one but not often.

[cljohnr]

And again, my employer tightened the rules to any ARREST of class b or above with no time limitations.

In my opinion, that's a ridiculous standard. A completely innocent person could be arrested for anything. The arrest mistake could be so egregious that it invalidates the immunity of the police department, allowing you to successfully sue the officer/department for false arrest. Yet that person now lacks sufficient moral character to hold a job?

[Doodah]

So a person who was charged with Possession of Alcohol by Person Under 21 could never be employed by your agency or access NLETS (in Texas) if the crime occurred 15 years ago?

[beli]

So a person who was charged with Possession of Alcohol by Person Under 21 could never be employed by your agency or access NLETS (in Texas) if the crime occurred 15 years ago?

Woudln't that be expunged from all databases once the kid turns 18, especially if they have no other run ins with the law?

Edited May 10, 2012 by beli

[VibrantEcho]

So a person who was charged with Possession of Alcohol by Person Under 21 could never be employed by your agency or access NLETS (in Texas) if the crime occurred 15 years ago?

Woudln't that be expunged from all databases once the kid turns 18, especially if they have no other run ins with the law?

 

Not if they're 19 or 20 at the time of the arrest.

[beli]

So a person who was charged with Possession of Alcohol by Person Under 21 could never be employed by your agency or access NLETS (in Texas) if the crime occurred 15 years ago?

Woudln't that be expunged from all databases once the kid turns 18, especially if they have no other run ins with the law?

 

Not if they're 19 or 20 at the time of the arrest.

That makes sense.. I was thinking Doodah ment someone that was 17 or so.

[jolla]

So a person who was charged with Possession of Alcohol by Person Under 21 could never be employed by your agency or access NLETS (in Texas) if the crime occurred 15 years ago?

No. Possession of alcohol by person under 21 is not an offense involving dishonesty or breach of trust or money laundering. From one of the links posted earlier (http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/5000-1300.html):

 

5000 - Statements of Policy

 

FDIC STATEMENT OF POLICY FOR SECTION 19 OF THE FDI ACT

 

Section 19 of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act (12 U.S.C. 1829) prohibits, without the prior written consent of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), a person convicted of any criminal offense involving dishonesty or breach of trust or money laundering (covered offenses), or who has agreed to enter into a pretrial diversion or similar program in connection with a prosecution for such offense, from becoming or continuing as an institution-affiliated party, owning or controlling, directly or indirectly an insured depository institution (insured institution), or otherwise participating, directly or indirectly, in the conduct of the affairs of the insured institution.

[Doodah]

So a person who was charged with Possession of Alcohol by Person Under 21 could never be employed by your agency or access NLETS (in Texas) if the crime occurred 15 years ago?

Woudln't that be expunged from all databases once the kid turns 18, especially if they have no other run ins with the law?

 

Not if they're 19 or 20 at the time of the arrest.

That makes sense.. I was thinking Doodah ment someone that was 17 or so.

The question was actually for angeleyeskkhr.... I can't speak for every state; however, Florida keeps juvenile records on the books unless removed by court order. It will come up *********************JUVENILE ARREST************** the offense info and sentence data.